An interview with: Alice Ashcroft of The WILD Network
Alice Ashcroft is the founder of the Women In Lancaster Digital (WILD) Network and a gender diversity in technology consultant and researcher. Understanding language and a drive for gender inclusivity runs through everything she does — from her PhD research into gender dynamics within the tech industry to gender diversity consultancy and building The WILD Network.
We recently caught up with Alice to talk more about the WILD Network and gender and diversity considerations within the tech industry.
Thanks for joining us today. To start, please can you tell us about yourself and your background?
Alice: I'm Alice Ashcroft and I'm currently doing my PhD in Gender, Diversity and Technology.
I ended up doing this from working in a software development team for about seven or eight years where I worked mainly on the project management side of things.
Before that, I did my undergrad degree in Computing. During my Computing undergrad, I did my dissertation on how men and women write code differently — or if they write differently.
When I started working full-time, I realised it was quite still apparent in the workplace that women are treated quite differently. So, I decided to research it further. That's why I started doing my PhD.
Then, while I was on maternity leave, I got to know the people in Fraser House and around the Lancaster tech scene a lot more and realised there was a real demand for a safe space for women — and not only a space for them to meet each other but a space for them to learn a lot of skills. So, I decided to set that up which is what I'm doing right now!
You’ve got some great experience in the tech sector and in the topic of gender diversity!
Can you tell me more about your journey founding The WILD Network?
Alice: It happened while I was on maternity leave. I need to completely credit Kerry Harrison. She did her masters research project on co-working spaces and how they can be made more accessible when it comes to diversity.
One of the recommendations that came out of that was to establish a network, which is what prompted Rory to reach out to me.
But setting up networks for women is something I've had experience in in the past. So, I've set up the PhD Women's Writing Group at Lancaster University. I was involved in setting up the Women's Network at Lancaster University. I’ve also run events as part of side hustles in the past. So, it kind of just all came together at the right moment when I was coming back to work.
It’s like you say, I have this experience in tech but I also have this understanding from the research that I've done. I'm passionate about the fact that sometimes you actually need practical solutions instead of another research paper — not to diminish research — but having a real space and event that will actually help women here is what will really help make a difference in the short term.
That was one of the things I loved about Kerry's research. She did this amazing research and at the end were some solid practical recommendations, which I think all good research should end with.
It sounds like you’re doing a lot. Whether that’s being on maternity leave, raising a baby, working a job while doing academic work…
How do you manage getting a community off the ground alongside everything else you’re doing?
Alice: I have a real habit of taking on too much. I also have bipolar and ADHD which often work against each other too. If you put a lot on my plate or give me too many plates to spin — whichever metaphor we're choosing — something I do to bring myself back to reality is I’m an avid list maker.
I am also a big believer in time blocking, and also making sure you're working with really great people. So, making sure you work with people who understand, I guess, my neurodivergence and disability but also people who understand what it takes to build a network.
With The WILD network, I got some advice from Dan Knowles early on and I have support from Rory who runs the space that the events run, Kerry obviously had that great report at the beginning, Lauren helps with the marketing side of things… I have the people from OrganiseMe to help with the administration and then our amazing sponsors as well. So, it's also a case of having a support network where you can ask for help when you need it.
But, also making sure you plan things. I'm currently booking the speakers for February. The whole next year is kind of already mapped out so, I guess, the way I manage things is just being over-organised to counterbalance the chaos that is day-to-day life.
“There’s no point having all the people in the room if not everyone is listened to in the same way. ”
You mentioned how you lean on that support network for building your own tech community. Would you say community is important for someone working in the tech space?
Alice: I think community is really important in any sector but especially in the tech sector because historically — and spoiler alert, I’m writing my thesis on this at the moment — a lot of work in tech has been either one person sat at a computer or one person designing something or one person engaging with technology, on a one-to-one basis.
But what's happened over the last few years is the different paradigms of HCI have kind of shifted forwards so you have this need for people to work together collaboratively, and to work together even when they're working on something that historically has been done by one person. Then you also need those groups of people who are working together to have a diverse mindset. That doesn't necessarily mean diversity as in ticking a box. It means every single person has a completely unique lived experience and it's how we can bring all of that together to make the best products and serve the community in the best way with the products we’re creating.
It’s also about making sure that people in those settings feel safe, supported, and heard which is another big part of what I do. There's no point having all the people in the room if not everyone is listened to in the same way.
I think community is absolutely vital — not only to help people feel included and feel like they belong but it's also vital if, as people working in tech, we're creating products which are going to massively impact the world. It's also important to make sure that those products are appropriate for use.
What does your future vision for The WILD Network look like?
Alice: Our mission has always been to foster a sense of community and collaboration over competition.
Historically, there has been one seat at the table for a woman and we've all been pitted against each other to grab that seat. Whereas, I think what's happening now with fourth-wave feminism is we’re acknowledging there needs to be more than one seat at the table and there needs to be a diverse range of women at the table. That doesn't mean taking seats away from men. That just means putting more seats at the table. So, that's always been a big part of what we do.
When setting up The WILD Network, we ran focus groups with women in the local area to find out what they wanted. And they didn't just want another networking event. They wanted a place where they could learn and grow. So, we really tailor our events around personal development and making sure people are getting trained on things. But, we also offer some really cool showcases of women doing cool things in tech.
In terms of where I want it to go in the future, I want to build on what we’re already doing. I want to keep growing that sense of community. I want to make sure that we're still focusing on people's personal development and showcasing really cool examples of it. But, hopefully, to a bigger and bigger audience — or maybe we'll have different groups that focus on different things within WILD. I don't know specifically at the moment, watch this space, but growing that community is where I see it going in the future.
“...there needs to be a diverse range of women at the table. That doesn’t mean taking seats away from men. That just means putting more seats at the table. So, that’s always been a big part of what we do”
There’s definitely excitement in not fully knowing what that future looks like yet.
How can people get involved with The WILD Network?
Alice: Come to the events! That’s a great place to start.
We also have a LinkedIn group set up where people can ask advice and we post prompts in there every couple of weeks to get conversations going. We're also creating a video series called Wild Women where women in tech can share their experiences. So, if there's any women that want to kind of get involved with that, I would love to have them on to hear their stories.
We’re also working with local schools to provide role models and talks to encourage more girls to see computing as an option. So, there are lots of ways to get involved. The website is in progress, so for now join the LinkedIn page and sign up for the mailing list.
You've not been off the ground for a long and you're already putting so many valuable resources and tools in place for people.
Alice: It's surprised me how quickly it's grown. We've run three events so far and the next one is in October.
It's amazed me and part of me thinks I shouldn't be amazed because I've worked so hard for this, but also I think it just hit it at the right time. So, I don't know how much to credit myself and how much to credit the community but it's amazed me how quickly that it's grown and I think it shows that there was a real need for it.
How many events do you run each year?
Alice: There are eight events a year. The one in October is invite-only because it's in collaboration with the school.
But we host all our events at Fraser House, a co-working space in Lancaster, which really helps foster that sense of community. It’s a vibrant location that’s great for running events.
Outside of The WILD Network, you also offer Gender Diversity Consulting. What would you say are some of the fundamental ways tech businesses can better support women and marginalised groups within their team?
Alice: My consulting focuses on three main areas.
There's the recruitment side of things. I'm constantly hearing people say “Oh, we're happy to hire women, they just don't apply” so that is something that needs to be resolved. That can be done by working with local schools and colleges to offer vocational programmes, and by also making sure the job descriptions you're putting out on the job adverts that you're posting are encouraging everybody to apply, not just a very specific group of people.
There's also the sense of community and belonging within the teams you have. So, like I said before, it's not just about making sure people are sat at the table, it’s making sure that everyone's heard and everyone's ideas are being taken forward. So, that's something that I help with, provide training on, and carry out research on companies to give recommendations really tailored to them. But reading into that would be a really great place for companies to start.
The third part of it is making sure that the products people are building are usable by everybody. So making sure that the user research that they're carrying out involves as many different groups, as possible, and as many different experiences as possible and making sure that is making it back into the product development.
That’s great. So, it’s about making sure you work across every level of the business?
Alice: That’s right. There’s many issues with the world ‘pipeline’ but I think it is really important to look at every stage of it.
If you're not getting women applying for roles, then get involved in things like The WILD Network who are actively trying to engage with local schools and colleges.
If you're getting women applying but their applications aren't as strong then maybe you're asking for the wrong things in your job description.
So, you need to evaluate the recruitment side of things all the way through to the software or whatever it is that you're putting out. Even if you're outside of tech, what you're putting out there will be affected by both the people making it and the people you've spoken to as you made it. So yeah, I think that holistic view is very important.
“You need people who, when you’re super honest with them, they give you a reality check once in a while. ”
Do you have any words of wisdom for women, who are looking to get involved in the digital tech space or who are already in that space but struggle to find how they belong in that community?
Alice: It’s cheesy, but finding your community is really important. You need to find a group of people that you can be completely honest with, people that you just click with but also making sure that your community isn't just people that look like you. You need people who, when you're super honest with them, they give you a reality check once in a while.
Join The WILD Network is obviously my second tip. That's a great way to meet those people as well. The community that's already been established after three events is really quite special. You're already seeing people connect afterwards and follow up. I get messages from people saying “I went out for a coffee with somebody I met at the network” and it's just incredible. So that's a really great way.
The third thing I'd recommend is to focus on your personal development. Whether that's coming to The WILD Network and getting training that way, reading books, watching YouTube videos, or listening to podcasts.
There's so much information out there. Not all of it will be right for everybody but finding the tips that help you develop some resilience, feel what you need to feel, or whatever it is you need help with, acknowledge that about yourself. And know that, generally, you're not the problem but it's a lot easier to change how you adapt to things than it is to change society. So, try to engage with both areas. Figure out what you can do to combat what's happening or better understand it so you know how to deal with it more.
Can you tell me more about your research into gendered language and the impact that has on the tech space and the world as a whole?
Alice: It impacts people in meetings talking to each other. But it’s also having a massive impact on the tech we’re developing. I mentioned before about involving users in research but it goes deeper than that.
So, we have all these things now with generative AI and language models. But who's building them? Who's deciding which words are connected? Are we building the language models in a way where it represents how language is used or how we want language to be used?
If you're using it for analysis, you probably want these things to be modelled how language is used because then it’ll do the analysis properly. Whereas, if you are generating things, you probably want it to model how we want language to be used. So, when you're using things like Chat GPT or and Claude AI, you don't want it to be spouting things which are sexist or racist, you want it to be the right kind of language but who's to decide what that is?
Some feminism isn't intersectional like it should be. So you might say “Oh, this language model is feminist” but is it inclusive? So that's a new area I'm looking into and I'm working on some collaborative research that focuses on that. So that's very interesting. And also terrifying at the same time
So, how can you approach that? How can you make sure it's not biased? I guess the answer is TBC depending on your research.
Alice: It’s TBC but, I also don’t think there will ever be a right answer because these things are going to consistently be debated. There's already a lot of hate on the Internet around gender topics so I don't think there will ever be a universally right answer. But how you model that is a very interesting problem. It’s definitely nuanced.
At the moment, most of those models are completely closed off. So you're engaging with this generative AI and you can't see the models that are being used behind it.
So, with any technology, you have to approach it with a sense of caution. So, are we giving people who are using generative AI the training to understand the nuances of these models? As with anything, it's about checking if we are educated in how we engage with technology.
Digital literacy is a huge thing and there's definitely gaps when it comes to that for many different reasons.
Empowering diversity in tech with The WILD Network
Alice Ashcroft is doing an incredible job at nurturing Lancaster’s tech community for women while ensuring more equitable gender diversity throughout the industry. Her research also plays a pivotal role in better understanding the language we use and how this impacts the products we develop and the experiences we engage in.
If you are interested in Gender Diversity in Technology Consulting with Alice, you can find out more about this by visiting Aliceashcroft.com/consulting.
If you would like to join The WILD Network and meet other women, minority genders, or allies working in Lancashire’s tech scene, you can join the LinkedIn group or follow Alice on LinkedIn to hear more about upcoming events.