An interview with: James Walkerdine from Relative Insight
We caught up with James Walkerdine, the COO of Relative Insight for a heart-to-heart about Relative Insight’s journey so far, the rollercoaster journey of scaling a tech business, and the achievements and lessons you learn along the way.
Who is Relative Insight?
Founded in 2012 by two Lancaster University academics, Phil Greenwood and James Walkerdine, Relative Insight is a multi-award winning, VC backed SaaS company making its mark on the world.
Relative Insight’s text analysis software has a remarkable history. From originally being used as a crime detection tool for law enforcement to now helping global big-name brands better interact with their target audiences.
Words are impactful. Yet, they’re also one of the most underused sources of intelligence in business. Through its text analysis tool, Relative Insight is helping brands understand how their audience feel, how to engage with them, and how the words they use impact their performance.
Here at Lancashire Digital Hub, we’re proud to have Relative Insight as one of our main sponsors in supporting and strengthening the local digital community.
About James, The COO of Relative Insight
James Walkerdine is the co-founder and COO of Relative Insight.
Coming from Derby, James moved to Lancaster for university back in 1995. This red-rose city clearly captured his heart as he has lived here ever since, working his way from a Lancaster University alumni to Research Fellow within the Computing department, before spinning out and co-founding Relative Insight.
At every step of his journey, James has been deeply ingrained in data and research — something that is reflected in Relative Insight’s capabilities and successes as an award-winning technology and analytics firm.
Why did you start Relative Insight? Tell us about your journey so far
James: Relative Insight’s journey began a long, long time ago when I was working as a Research Fellow at Lancaster University.
We were doing research on child protection and developing software tools to help law enforcement conduct investigations. Part of that was to help them speed up the process as they would typically rely on manually reading chat logs and doing keyword searches. This manual work could take weeks and weeks to complete. We knew we could build something to help speed this up.
So, our tool started as software to support child protection. In 2012, we got our initial investment and we also sold the tool into the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Force — who contacted us a year later to say the software helped them successfully prosecute someone.
In that respect, the tool did what the original research intended to do — help protect children.
In 2014, our CEO suggested applying the tech to the advertising and marketing world. We spoke to some agencies that we knew and initial pilots with them demonstrated to us that there was potential for an offering. It then grew organically from there.
In 2018, we hired our CRO. Then everything accelerated. Within 12 months, we had doubled our revenue, our team had doubled in size, and so forth. To put it into context, in 2018 there were 8 employees. Now, we have over 100.
As new start-up founders we were maybe a bit naïve about the way the business world works. We thought we would always be selling a tool for law enforcement and never envisioned it being applied in other ways. When we were setting up the company, the Director of Enterprise at the University said “I can guarantee that in a few years time, you won’t be doing what you’re doing now”, and that’s what happened.
Relative Insight has had a dynamic journey so far — from starting out as a tool to protect children online to becoming powerful text analysis software for businesses. What would you say lies at the core of Relative Insight’s growth?
James: We have had many pivots throughout the journey of Relative Insight — which is not uncommon as you grow a business. You change direction a little bit or change your product a little bit and it’s an ongoing evolution.
I think that ability to pivot and adapt is one of the reasons we have succeeded in getting Relative Insight to where it is today.
But, what lies at the core of growth changes all the time. What would have been at the core years ago is different to what is at the core today.
Fundamentally, I would say we had that crest of data science, becoming the new thing. By extension, we were fortunate to probably be at the forefront of analysing language at the right time — certainly in the marketing and advertising space where brands were starting to realise that, in order to better engage with their target audience, how they communicated was key. Just having standard marketing material and not adapting that to your audience doesn’t work. In the last 5 - 10 years, I think people really realised that the way you communicate with your audience is incredibly important. And I think the fact that no one else was doing it when we did it meant we got to work with some really big names early on.
In terms of growth from a functional perspective, it changes every year. And the challenges you face change every year. So, I think, the growth engine has to evolve depending on where you want your journey to go.
What have been your proudest achievements & successes as a company?
James: From an individual point of view, it was really quite surreal going into another office that wasn’t in Lancaster for the first time and seeing our logo on the wall. I haven’t been to our two US offices yet - but I expect it will be the same feeling then. It’s these moments where you really start to realise what we’ve been able to achieve.
I always think the people you bring along and watching them grow with you, that is something to be proud of. Some have been with us from the start, others the company may outgrow. Either way, it’s great seeing people develop alongside you and being able to share in that journey. People who can also go, “Wow, we’ve got a Philly office!”.
And, obviously, the other aspect is getting big name customers. That’s another pinch-me moment. These are companies that clearly see value in what we do and knowing they choose to work with us is pretty humbling.
I think some of our proudest achievements are the things that you don’t even have time to think about but one day, they happen.
“Lancaster doesn’t shout enough about what it has here — and there’s some amazing companies here — and we, as a community, should come together and raise our voices a lot more.”
And what would you say has been your biggest lesson?
James: You’re asking some tough questions…
This is something I often say, I think the biggest lesson is to make sure you get the right people. And, you know, in a fast growing company, that’s often hard because you just need to get people in. But when you get those superstars, the impact they have is transformational.
I think another one of the biggest lessons is accepting that you need help. It’s very easy to say “Yes, I can do all this myself” and sure, you probably can. But someone who’s a superstar at it will do that job at a different level. And when they join, you’ll ask yourself “Why didn’t I bring this person on board a year ago?”
It’s all part of that evolution and changing. So, I think a key lesson is finding the right people but also acknowledging when you need to get them in and acknowledging when you need help — and accepting that it’s not a bad thing. It’s actually a good thing to get help.
It’s far better to have lots of really amazing people around you that you can learn from and they can help make the company stronger than not to, and that means swallowing your pride. Asking for help is often seen as a weakness but I actually think it’s a strength.
Can you tell us about any exciting developments or projects that you are working on right now?
James: In November, we are a headline sponsor of TMRE (The Market Research Event) in the US - this is the world's number one market research event. A few years ago, we would have just had a small stand and now we’re the headline sponsor.
Our Philadelphia office went live last week [12th September 2022] and we’re really building the team out there. I think, for us, this is a really exciting chapter coming up. We’ve had a US subsidiary for a few years now — since 2019 — but now we’re moving into that next chapter when we’re going to properly grow the US company. The US is our biggest market so it makes sense to have a much bigger US presence.
How has the sense of collaboration and community in the Lancashire area impacted your business?
James: We’ve always been keen to engage with the community. In part, being active in the local community helps us raise awareness for the company and helps us with hiring people.
On the other hand, I’ve been in Lancaster since I came up for my Undergraduate degree in ‘95 and Lancaster has been a big part of my life since then.
We’re increasingly looking at giving back to the community and helping others do what we’ve done. When we first started at the Uni and spun out, we didn’t have much in the way of support. We didn’t have anyone to guide us and I always felt that was a shame. There’s so many new companies in this area that could do with having a mentor to provide advice — and I’m always happy to share our experiences.
We always said we wanted Relative Insight to be a name people associate with Lancaster. And you’ve got to work on that, you need to build your brand and build awareness. None of our customers are in Lancaster so getting involved in community activities is key for spreading awareness. And I think shouting about our work also benefits Lancaster, and Lancashire.
Lancaster doesn’t shout enough about what it has here — and there’s some amazing companies here — and we, as a community, should come together and raise our voices a lot more.
Ultimately, we’re keen to help keep the local tech community alive and grow it.
To get you started on that mentorship journey, what tips or advice would you give to digital enthusiasts wanting to get more involved in Lancashire’s digital & tech community?
James: I know we’ve touched on this already but asking for help and acknowledging you need help isn’t a bad thing. There’s no point sitting at home with your ideas and struggling. Get help. People will want to help.
Find the right people and partners who can go on that journey with you. I think places like Fraser House are a great place to start. People like Rory and Dan network people together which is something we didn’t have before. Find people like that who are that hub owner because they will know people for you to talk to.
And understand that it’s a company, not an extension of your ego. A company is its own entity — you often have to detach your own personal beliefs from it to ensure you are doing what’s best for the company. And that applies at any stage, even as a 100-person company we have to keep ensuring we build a culture where we are all working together for a common vision..That’s what ensures the company will scale and succeed.
Before we go, do you have any final words of wisdom to share?
James: It’s a rollercoaster. I know that’s a cliché, everyone says it’s a rollercoaster. But it is, and there will be highs and lows throughout the journey. And being at that bottom as a business owner or manager is not a pleasant place to be.
The first time that happened to us, I remember our CEO said to us, “Look, you can either spend a lot of energy worrying about this situation or you can use that energy to keep the company going and grow it”. And that, to me, was really good advice.
There will be good times. There will be bad times. It’s really important not to dwell and let all your energy be focused on panicking about the situation. Somehow put all of that in a box and carry on driving the company because odds are you’ll come out of it again.
That’s a wrap — Pivot, find superstars, and embrace exciting chapters
We hope you enjoyed this deep dive into Relative Insight, as much as we have. It’s certainly been an impressive journey and one that I think is a testament to the product, and company, that they have built.
You can learn more about Relative Insight here.
Make sure you also sign up to get notified about our upcoming events where James is often in attendance showing his support for the digital community here in Lancashire.